Hi, I'm from Indonesia. In my country we live among the Muslims who are the majority in this country. We know that explain about the Trinity is the biggest challenge for Jesus followers. Trinity is really complicated, but in my opinion it is not something that can not be explained.
And this is what i think about the God of Trinity.... ( sorry my english is not good enough :D )
So, it is nonsense if Christian or Chatolic isn't a monotheism religion
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So, it's not a blood relationship. God said that He loves those who fear Him as a father has compassion on his children. So it is very obvious that it is the relationship between God's love to His beloved creation. That's why we call Him as our Father.... but It is just the first reason. We still have another reason to call Him as our Father in heaven.
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Actually the Bible has answered all the questions above. The problem is many people do not read the Bible carefully.
Jesus is the answer to that problem. In Jesus, God can save mankind while He punish sin in the name of Jesus. But the Bible says that every man shall bear his own sin and can not bear the sins of others? Right?
Anyone unable to bear the sins of others, because he himself sinned. But Jesus did not do any sin. And He is not someone else, He is our God. As written in the book of Isaiah 9:6
How can I say Jesus is the God while He was still prayed to His Father?
Do you know what is the Father?
Father is the Spirit of God. He is infinite, omnipresent and omnipotent. Father put His spirit in the body of Jesus. When Father put His Spirit in the body of Jesus ... It does not reduce His omnipresent, and He is still exist everywhere.
Here are the verses....
So; Father is the condition of the Spirit of God, that is unlimitted, omnipresent, and omnipotent, while Son is the spirit of God who lived in the body of Jesus Christ. However, the Spirit of God that lived in Jesus, and the Spirit of God in the omnipresent state is still one Spirit of God.
Here are the verses....
You should notice that each time Jesus refers to God as His Father, He is equating himself with God. It's written in the Gospel of John:
People will think that we will always be the same with our fathers. If your father is a human, then you must also be a human being. Then how Jesus said that God is His Father? Is God a man? Does God have flesh and blood? Once again, this is a ridiculous thought. The Bible already teaches us that God is a Spirit, so Jesus Christ was talking about the spirit that was upon Him. The problem is humans can only judge what he saw. So, when Jesus Christ said that God is His Father. He didn't want to say that He has the same blood and flesh with the Father. His body was created by The Spirit of God in the womb of Mary; So if humans inherit his parents' genetics. Jesus receives the Spirit of His Father in Him.
The problem is for the human, the spirit of child is different with the spirit of his parents. I have my own spirit while my father and mother have their own spirit. But Jesus said that He had His Father's Spirit.
So now you have to understand the complexity of a Jesus Christ. His body is 100% a human being, while his Spirit is 100% God. In front of the people of Israel He will show His human side, while in front of His disciples; He will show His divinity. If you can not understand about this you will always get confused. Jesus always pray to His Father; Because His Spirit was preparing himself to be the perfect sacrifice for human sin. A sacrifice for sin should not do any sin, if not he himself should be punished. Do you think ignoring the presence of God is not a sin? It is obvious that it is a sin.
And because Jesus Christ had to die as a spotless man, then the Spirit of God is in him prepared himself as a spotless man and not as a God who is always perfect. If He want to act as God who is always perfect, then he did not need to come down to earth as a human being. But it's already in His design that He will send a sacrifice to save humans while He still can punish the sin of us.
So after his body was destroyed for the redemption of our sins; His Spirit down to Hades and seize the key. On the third day He rose from the dead .... and get a glorified body. Bible paraphrase it as sitting on the right hand of God. "Sitting" is a symbol that he had completed his task; While "On the right hand of God" is a symbol that He will be a representative of God in declaring His glory. His spirit had returned to His Father (His omnipresent state); And Father had declared that If he wanted to declare His Glory; It will be expressed in the likeness of Jesus Christ. As stated by Jesus himself in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Even while still in the flesh, Jesus claimed about this...
So if one day in front of you appears the figure of Jesus Christ; That means you're facing the Lord of the universe. I've seen Him once, and I'm scared to death...no kidding. My consciousness of sin is so powerful; until I thought I was going to die on that day :D
And Jesus in the book of Revelation declare himself as the Almighty;
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Jesus said....
So GOD has poured His spirit upon billions of human beings. Does that mean there are billions of God's Spirit today? No, the Spirit of God remains one. So at that time, although the Spirit of God was upon Jesus, and the Spirit of God is still omnipresent .... Spirit of God remains just one.
If the Spirit of God was upon Jesus, and now that same Spirit also came upon all men, does it mean Jesus Christ is not God? There is a big difference between the Spirit of God which lived in Jesus Christ to the spirit which lives in the common human. I don't want to say that the spirit which lived in Jesus was different with the spirit that lives in His people today. I just want to say that the Spirit of God is doing two different things.
In Jesus: The Spirit acts as the Spirit of Jesus himself. Therefore, each time He delivered the Word of God, Jesus said, "I say unto you, ......". So it is very clear that Jesus places himself as the source of the Word of God. Then in many instances, he showed miracles, such as raising the dead, relieve storm, condemned the plants to wilt,.... and it was all done instantly without mentioning the name of God or pray. In those cases, Jesus was about to show the divine in Him.
Nowadays, the same Spirit lives in His people as a helper to help everyone to understand the truth of God's Word. Not only that; Spirit of God will live in the hearts of everyone who receives Him. The goal is to enhance the spirit of His people. And His spirit will always be with His people for ever. As Jesus said.... John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Why forever? It because our spirits are the spirits which full of flaws, and tend to rebel. Such spirits can not enter into heaven. So we must conquer our spirit and let the Spirit of God enthroned in us. Currently we can not see Him. But when the time comes, everyone will live in a glorified body. That's the time when the Spirit of God will be so real for everyone. His spirit will always be with us forever, because we want to stay at Father's home in heaven forever. Or, is there someone who makes a plan, that he/she will migrate to hell if he/she becomes bored in heaven? I don't think so. That's why the spirit of God will always be with us forever. And for the spirit of the believer live in His Spirit, we can call Him as our Father. That's the second reason we call Him as our father....
So when we talk about the relationship between man and God, we can use the terms son and the Father. It does not claim blood ties, but the relationship of love that's given by His Holy Spirit.
Thus, there are three stages experienced by humans until we can live in eternity with the Father in heaven.
So that's Trinity. God loves us like a Father loves his son. Therefore; He gave His spirit to live among men (son) in the flesh (likeness of son) 2000 years ago to liberate us from the bondage of death. After the redemption; His Spirit returned to heaven and pour out His Spirit to many people. At this time he perfected the spirit of His people, so that we can live in Jesus, and Jesus in His Father, and thus we are united with the Father.
So, The Father is the God's Spirit Himself; The Son is the God's Spirit that sent into the world to live as human being and redeem us; The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that's poured out upon us to help us understand the word of God and makes our spirit perfect in His Spirit.
Although, the three elements of the trinity was performed by the same Spirit of God; but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit hold different roles in the work of God to save mankind.
That is my understanding of God's trinity. God bless...
And this is what i think about the God of Trinity.... ( sorry my english is not good enough :D )
1. There is only one God, even Jesus and Paul taught us that way.
KJV-Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
So, it is nonsense if Christian or Chatolic isn't a monotheism religion
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2. So what exactly do we refer to as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
You must know the plan of God in redeeming His people. First of all He has revealed Himself as our Father. Many people have misconceptions and assume that we have a blood relationship with the Lord. That's really ridiculous, right? So, why we call Him as our Father in heaven? Read the verse below:KJV-Psalms 103:13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
So, it's not a blood relationship. God said that He loves those who fear Him as a father has compassion on his children. So it is very obvious that it is the relationship between God's love to His beloved creation. That's why we call Him as our Father.... but It is just the first reason. We still have another reason to call Him as our Father in heaven.
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3. What about the Son, the Messiah, our redeemer?
God said in the garden of Eden "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Jesus is the seed of woman. He was born of a virgin, and it's really unusual. God wanted to emphasize that he had fulfilled his promise in Eden. But that's not the main question. The main question is "why His followers regard Jesus as God? Why did the Lord put the blame from one person to another that does not do any sin? And .... if Jesus is God, why did she prayed and cried to his Father?" You surely agree that this is the hardest question of the trinity.Actually the Bible has answered all the questions above. The problem is many people do not read the Bible carefully.
- The Bible says that God hates sin
- The Bible also says that God loves humans
Jesus is the answer to that problem. In Jesus, God can save mankind while He punish sin in the name of Jesus. But the Bible says that every man shall bear his own sin and can not bear the sins of others? Right?
Anyone unable to bear the sins of others, because he himself sinned. But Jesus did not do any sin. And He is not someone else, He is our God. As written in the book of Isaiah 9:6
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
How can I say Jesus is the God while He was still prayed to His Father?
Do you know what is the Father?
Father is the Spirit of God. He is infinite, omnipresent and omnipotent. Father put His spirit in the body of Jesus. When Father put His Spirit in the body of Jesus ... It does not reduce His omnipresent, and He is still exist everywhere.
Here are the verses....
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
=====Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
So; Father is the condition of the Spirit of God, that is unlimitted, omnipresent, and omnipotent, while Son is the spirit of God who lived in the body of Jesus Christ. However, the Spirit of God that lived in Jesus, and the Spirit of God in the omnipresent state is still one Spirit of God.
Here are the verses....
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
======John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
You should notice that each time Jesus refers to God as His Father, He is equating himself with God. It's written in the Gospel of John:
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
=====John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
People will think that we will always be the same with our fathers. If your father is a human, then you must also be a human being. Then how Jesus said that God is His Father? Is God a man? Does God have flesh and blood? Once again, this is a ridiculous thought. The Bible already teaches us that God is a Spirit, so Jesus Christ was talking about the spirit that was upon Him. The problem is humans can only judge what he saw. So, when Jesus Christ said that God is His Father. He didn't want to say that He has the same blood and flesh with the Father. His body was created by The Spirit of God in the womb of Mary; So if humans inherit his parents' genetics. Jesus receives the Spirit of His Father in Him.
The problem is for the human, the spirit of child is different with the spirit of his parents. I have my own spirit while my father and mother have their own spirit. But Jesus said that He had His Father's Spirit.
So now you have to understand the complexity of a Jesus Christ. His body is 100% a human being, while his Spirit is 100% God. In front of the people of Israel He will show His human side, while in front of His disciples; He will show His divinity. If you can not understand about this you will always get confused. Jesus always pray to His Father; Because His Spirit was preparing himself to be the perfect sacrifice for human sin. A sacrifice for sin should not do any sin, if not he himself should be punished. Do you think ignoring the presence of God is not a sin? It is obvious that it is a sin.
And because Jesus Christ had to die as a spotless man, then the Spirit of God is in him prepared himself as a spotless man and not as a God who is always perfect. If He want to act as God who is always perfect, then he did not need to come down to earth as a human being. But it's already in His design that He will send a sacrifice to save humans while He still can punish the sin of us.
So after his body was destroyed for the redemption of our sins; His Spirit down to Hades and seize the key. On the third day He rose from the dead .... and get a glorified body. Bible paraphrase it as sitting on the right hand of God. "Sitting" is a symbol that he had completed his task; While "On the right hand of God" is a symbol that He will be a representative of God in declaring His glory. His spirit had returned to His Father (His omnipresent state); And Father had declared that If he wanted to declare His Glory; It will be expressed in the likeness of Jesus Christ. As stated by Jesus himself in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Even while still in the flesh, Jesus claimed about this...
John
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
So if one day in front of you appears the figure of Jesus Christ; That means you're facing the Lord of the universe. I've seen Him once, and I'm scared to death...no kidding. My consciousness of sin is so powerful; until I thought I was going to die on that day :D
And Jesus in the book of Revelation declare himself as the Almighty;
Revelation
1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
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4. And what about the Holy spirit?
Redemption had been accomplished; and mankind have been freed from the shackles of death; once and for all. So if in the name of Jesus we are freed from the shackles of death; Does that mean we can go to heaven? Sure, but it should be noted that the human spirits is the weak spirits and not perfect. Although your tongue confess that you receive Jesus as your Savior; it will not guarantee that we will not sin again; And if you are not perfect in holiness, how can you go to heaven the most holy realm? That is the reason Jesus Christ ascended into heaven. So His spirit can be re-united with the God's Spirit that is omnipresent. At that time humans have been justified in the name of Him. After reuniting his Spirit, God has been pleased to pour out His spirit on all people who receive the redemption in the blood of Jesus Christ His Son.Jesus said....
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
So GOD has poured His spirit upon billions of human beings. Does that mean there are billions of God's Spirit today? No, the Spirit of God remains one. So at that time, although the Spirit of God was upon Jesus, and the Spirit of God is still omnipresent .... Spirit of God remains just one.
If the Spirit of God was upon Jesus, and now that same Spirit also came upon all men, does it mean Jesus Christ is not God? There is a big difference between the Spirit of God which lived in Jesus Christ to the spirit which lives in the common human. I don't want to say that the spirit which lived in Jesus was different with the spirit that lives in His people today. I just want to say that the Spirit of God is doing two different things.
In Jesus: The Spirit acts as the Spirit of Jesus himself. Therefore, each time He delivered the Word of God, Jesus said, "I say unto you, ......". So it is very clear that Jesus places himself as the source of the Word of God. Then in many instances, he showed miracles, such as raising the dead, relieve storm, condemned the plants to wilt,.... and it was all done instantly without mentioning the name of God or pray. In those cases, Jesus was about to show the divine in Him.
Nowadays, the same Spirit lives in His people as a helper to help everyone to understand the truth of God's Word. Not only that; Spirit of God will live in the hearts of everyone who receives Him. The goal is to enhance the spirit of His people. And His spirit will always be with His people for ever. As Jesus said.... John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Why forever? It because our spirits are the spirits which full of flaws, and tend to rebel. Such spirits can not enter into heaven. So we must conquer our spirit and let the Spirit of God enthroned in us. Currently we can not see Him. But when the time comes, everyone will live in a glorified body. That's the time when the Spirit of God will be so real for everyone. His spirit will always be with us forever, because we want to stay at Father's home in heaven forever. Or, is there someone who makes a plan, that he/she will migrate to hell if he/she becomes bored in heaven? I don't think so. That's why the spirit of God will always be with us forever. And for the spirit of the believer live in His Spirit, we can call Him as our Father. That's the second reason we call Him as our father....
So when we talk about the relationship between man and God, we can use the terms son and the Father. It does not claim blood ties, but the relationship of love that's given by His Holy Spirit.
Thus, there are three stages experienced by humans until we can live in eternity with the Father in heaven.
- At Eden, we are able not to sin, and able to sin. It because humans depend on God about all the knowledge of good and bad. on the other side; God gave us the ability of free will.
- After the expulsion, we can not afford to be without sin, and unable to live holy. It because we rely on our own understanding of good and bad, and still....we have the ability of free will.
- Next life in heaven,.... we will live in a holy life, and can not do any sin, because our spirit will always live on in His spirit. And there will be no more happiness can beat the happiness of living with God in His glory
So that's Trinity. God loves us like a Father loves his son. Therefore; He gave His spirit to live among men (son) in the flesh (likeness of son) 2000 years ago to liberate us from the bondage of death. After the redemption; His Spirit returned to heaven and pour out His Spirit to many people. At this time he perfected the spirit of His people, so that we can live in Jesus, and Jesus in His Father, and thus we are united with the Father.
So, The Father is the God's Spirit Himself; The Son is the God's Spirit that sent into the world to live as human being and redeem us; The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that's poured out upon us to help us understand the word of God and makes our spirit perfect in His Spirit.
Although, the three elements of the trinity was performed by the same Spirit of God; but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit hold different roles in the work of God to save mankind.
That is my understanding of God's trinity. God bless...
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